Mumbai Masala from “God Remembers” : a source of Islamic propaganda protected by India -4 : all religions promote war

Posted on January 10, 2009. Filed under: Uncategorized |

The obsessively attention seeking, “God remembers”, a Muslim from India whose propaganda work in favour of Islam is carried out under a soc alled “research centre” from Mumbai, and thus can be assumed to be protected by the Indian state, the same Indian state which places gag orders on Tasleema Nasreen, an exiled Bangladeshi lady fleeing her country for safety after exposing Islam sponsored rape of Hindu women in Bangladesh, or bans Salman Rushdie’s books – claims that all religions sponsor war to establish “what is right”, and his favourite example is the “Geeta”, primarily a portion of the Indian epic Mahabharatam (The Great – Bharat – an ancient Sanskrit name given to the subcontinent after a supposed king whose origin and political decisions as reproted in literature are surprisingly advanced any historical period before the modern one). “God remembers” consistently tries to cite “Geeta” as the “Hindu” religious text that sponsors and supports war to establish “righteousness” and tries to use this to say that the “Quranic” verses that urge violent war on “opponents” are similar in context and purpose. Let us compare the actual contexts and purposes as claimed even in the texts.

The “Geeta” [“that which has been sung”] is also called Srimadbhagavatam, or simply Bhagavat, [“from Bhagavan – owner of the creative principle – a close approximation would be the “supreme creator” of the revealed traditions] and is actually a part of the epic Mahabharatam and starts with the section entitled “survey of forces”. Some of the clearest statements of the Vedantic or Upanishadic “Hindu” philosophies are available in this part, and there are long standing debates about the timing, source, and authenticity of these verses relative to the whole of the text of the epic. I would like to give my own commentary on the Mahabharatm later separately in a page, and non-Indians will find this epic in truthful unabridged translations a real eye-opener as to the basic views the ancient Indians held about society, state, politics, the relationship between individual and the group, and life and its aims. However for our purposes, only relevant portions from the Geeta will suffice.

Briefly, the context is that of the great war between two forces led by two royal factions who are also cousins of each other. When the most skilled warrior of one side, that led by the Pandavas [sons of Pandu], called Arjuna, hesitates and almost breaks down seeing his blood-relatives, or respected elders and teachers arrayed against him on the other side, and whom he would have to slaughter in due course, his chariot driver, Krishna intervenes and gives him a psychological pep-talk [a very realistic modern day version would of course be the psychological conditioning given before active field duty]. Krishna is no ordinary chariot driver, but a key politician of the time, with dreams of unifying the subcontinent under a single political authority and establish rule of “law”. Krishna is also thought to be an “avatar”, a human form of “Vishnu”, the creator version of the “supreme one”, who “descends to the world” from time to time in each “historical” era to re-establish “law”.

It is significant that the actual description of the war in the epic is mostly given in the narrative of Sanjaya, a person gifted with “remote vision and hearing”  who describes events as they unfold on the battlefield to the blind king and father of the opponents of the Pandavas, Dhritarashtra.

SECTION XXV  [(Bhagavad Gita Chapter I)] ([This where is the Bhagavad Gita proper starts])

Dhritarashtra said,–“Assembled together on the sacred plain of Kurukshetra from desire of fighting what did my sons and the Pandavas do. O Sanjaya.”

“Sanjaya said….when, the throwing of missiles had just commenced…Arjuna said,–‘O thou that knoweth no deterioration, place my car (once) between the two armies, so that I may observe these that stand here desirous of battle, and with whom I shall have to contend in the labours of this struggle. I will observe those who are assembled here and who are prepared to fight for doing what is agreeable in battle to the evil-minded son of Dhritarashtra….[Krishna] placing that excellent car between the two armies…said,–‘Behold, O [Arjuna] these assembled Kurus,–And there [Arjuna] beheld, standing (his) sires and grandsons, and friends, and father-in-law and well-wishers, in both the armies. Beholding all those kinsmen standing (there), the son of Kunti, possessed by excessive pity, despondingly said (these words).

“Arjuna said,–‘Beholding these kinsmen, O Krishna, assembled together and eager for the fight, my limbs, become languid, and my mouth becomes dry. My body trembles, and my hair stands on end. Gandiva slips from my hand, and my skin burns. I am unable to stand (any longer); my mind seems to wander. I behold adverse omens, too, O [Krishna]. I do not desire victory, O Krishna, not sovereignty, nor pleasures. Of what use would sovereignty be to us, O Govinda, or enjoyments, or even life, since they, for whose sake sovereignty, enjoyments, and pleasures are desired by us, are here arrayed for battle ready to give up life and wealth, viz., preceptors, sires, sons and grandsires, maternal uncles, father-in-laws, grandsons, brother-in-laws, and kinsmen. I wish not to slay these though they slay me, O slayer of Madhu, even for the sake of the sovereignty of the three worlds, what then for the sake of (this) earth? What gratification can be ours, O Janardana, by slaying the Dhartarashtras [sons of Dhritarashtra]? Even if they be regarded as foes, sin will overtake us if we slay them. Therefore, it behoveth us not to slay the sons of Dhritarashtra who are our own kinsmen. How, O Madhava [Krishna] can we be happy by killing our own kinsmen? Even if these, with judgments perverted by avarice, do not see the evil that ariseth from the extermination of a race, and the sin of internecine quarrels, why should not we, O [Krishna], who see the evils of the extermination of a race, learn to abstain from that sin? A race being destroyed, the eternal customs of that race are lost; and upon those customs being lost, sin overpowers the whole race….Alas, we have resolved to perpetrate a great sin, for we are ready to slay our own kinsmen from lust of the sweets of sovereignty. Better would it be for me if the sons of Dhritarashtra, weapon in hand, should in battle slay me (myself) unavenging unarmed.–‘”

Sanjaya continued,–“Having spoken thus on the field of battle, Arjuna, his mind troubled with grief, casting aside his bow and arrows, sat down on his car.” [Here ends the first lesson entitled “Survey of Forces”]

[(Bhagavad Gita Chapter II)]

Sanjaya said,–“Unto him thus possessed with pity, his eyes filled and oppressed with tears, and desponding, [Krishna] said these words.”

The Holy One said,–“Whence, O Arjuna, hath come upon thee, at such a crisis, this despondency that is unbecoming a person of noble birth, that shuts one out from heaven, and that is productive of infamy? Let no effeminacy be thine, O son of Kunti. This suits thee not. Shaking off this vile weakness of hearts, arise, O chastiser of foes.–”

Arjuna said,–“How, O [Krishna], can I with arrows contend in battle against Bhishma and Drona, [both teachers of Arjuna] deserving as they are, O slayer of foes, of worship? Without slaying (one’s) preceptors of great glory, it is well (for one), to live on even alms in this world. By slaying preceptors, even if they are avaricious of wealth, I should only enjoy pleasures that are bloodstained! We know not which of the two is of greater moment to us, viz., whether we should conquer them or they should conquer us. By slaying whom we would not like to live,–even they, the sons of Dhritarashtra, stand before (us). My nature affected by the taint of compassion, my mind unsettled about (my) duty, I ask thee. Tell me what is assuredly good (for me). I am thy disciple. O, instruct me, I seek thy aid. I do not see (that) which would dispel that grief of mine blasting my very senses, even if I obtain a prosperous kingdom on earth without a foe or the very sovereignty of the gods.'”

Sanjaya reports that Arjuna once more said, ‘I will not fight,’–and then remained silent.

Note that no such hesitation, and no such “lofty” sentiment of allowing oneself to be slaughtered at the hands of enemy which includes revered relatives or teachers is ever seen anywhere in the Quran.

Krishna then says “‘Thou mournest those that deserve not to be mourned. Thou speakest also the words of the (so-called) wise. Those, however, that are (really) wise, grieve neither for the dead nor for the living. It is not that, I or you or those rulers of men never were, or that all of us shall not hereafter be. Of an Embodied being, as childhood, youth, and, decrepitude are in this body, so (also) is the acquisition of another body. The man, who is wise, is never deluded in this. The contacts of the senses with their (respective) objects producing (sensations of) heat and cold, pleasure and pain, are not permanent, having (as they do) a beginning and an end. Do thou. O Bharata, endure them. For the man whom these afflict not, O bull among men, who is the same in pain and pleasure and who is firm in mind, is fit for emancipation. There is no (objective) existence of anything that is distinct from the soul; nor non-existence of anything possessing the virtues of the soul. This conclusion in respect of both these hath been arrived at by those that know the truths (of things). Know that [the soul] to be immortal by which all this [universe] is pervaded. No one can compass the destruction of that which is imperishable. It hath been said that those bodies of the Embodied (soul) which is eternal, indestructible and infinite, have an end. Do thou, therefore, fight, O Bharata. He who thinks it (the soul) to be the slayer and he who thinks it to be the slain, both of them know nothing; for it neither slays nor is slain. It is never born, nor doth it ever die; nor, having existed, will it exist no more. Unborn, unchangeable, eternal, and ancient, it is not slain upon the body being perished. That man who knoweth it to be indestructible, unchangeable, without decay, how and whom can he slay or cause to be slain? As a man, casting off robes that are worn out, putteth on others that are new, so the Embodied (soul), casting off bodies that are worn out, entereth other bodies that are new. Weapons cleave it not, fire consumeth it not; the waters do not drench it, nor doth the wind waste it. It is incapable of being cut, burnt, drenched, or dried up. It is unchangeable, all-pervading, stable, firm, and eternal. It is said to be imperceivable, inconceivable and unchangeable. Therefore, knowing it to be such, it behoveth thee not to mourn (for it). Then again even if thou regardest it as constantly born and constantly dead, it behoveth thee not yet, O mighty-armed one, to mourn (for it) thus. For, of one that is born, death is certain; and of one that is dead, birth is certain. Therefore. it behoveth thee not to mourn in a matter that is unavoidable. All beings (before birth) were unmanifest. Only during an interval(between birth and death), O Bharata, are they manifest; and then again, when death comes, they become (once more) unmanifest. What grief then is there in this? One looks upon it as a marvel; another speaks of it as a marvel. Yet even after having heard of it, no one apprehends it truly.

Compare this with the Quranic injunction :
047.020 Those who believe say, “Why is not a sura sent down (for us)?” But when a sura of basic or categorical meaning is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein, thou wilt see those in whose hearts is a disease looking at thee with a look of one in swoon at the approach of death. But more fitting for them-
047.021 Were it to obey and say what is just, and when a matter is resolved on, it were best for them if they were true to Allah.
047.003 This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
047.004 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

004.066 If We had ordered them to sacrifice their lives or to leave their homes, very few of them would have done it: But if they had done what they were (actually) told, it would have been best for them, and would have gone farthest to strengthen their (faith);
004.067 And We should then have given them from our presence a great reward;

009.088 But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.
009.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

004.074 Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory – Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
004.095 Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.

The Embodied (soul), O Bharata, is ever indestructible in everyone’s body. Therefore, it behoveth thee not to grieve for all (those) creatures. Casting thy eyes on the (prescribed) duties of thy order, it behoveth thee not to waver, for there is nothing else that is better for a Kshatriya than a battle fought fairly. Arrived of itself and (like unto) an open gate of heaven, happy are those Kshatriyas, O Partha, that obtain such a fight. But if thou dost not fight such a just battle, thou shalt then incur sin by abandoning the duties of thy order and thy fame. People will then proclaim thy eternal infamy, and to one that is held in respect, infamy is greater (as an evil) than death itself. All great car-warriors will regard thee as abstaining from battle from fear, and thou wilt be thought lightly by those that had (hitherto) esteemed thee highly. Thy enemies, decrying thy prowess, will say many words which should not be said. What can be more painful than that? Slain, thou wilt attain to heaven; or victorious, thou wilt enjoy the Earth. Therefore, arise, O son of Kunti, resolved for battle. Regarding pleasure and pain, gain and loss, victory and defeat, as equal, do battle for battle’s sake and sin will not be thine. This knowledge, that hath been communicated to thee is (taught) in the Sankhya (system). Listen now to that (inculcated) in Yoga (system). Possessed of that knowledge, thou, O Partha, wilt cast off the bonds of action. In this (the Yoga system) there is no waste of even the first attempt. There are no impediments. Even a little of this (form of) piety delivers from great fear. Here in this path, O son of Kuru, there is only one state of mind, consisting in firm devotion (to one object, viz., securing emancipation). The minds of those, however, that are not firmly devoted (to this), are many-branched (un-settled) and attached to endless pursuits. That flowery talk which, they that are ignorant, they that delight in the words of the Vedas, they, O Partha, that say that there is nothing else, they whose minds are attached to worldly pleasures, they that regard (a) heaven (of pleasures and enjoyments) as the highest object of acquisition…. and promises birth as the fruit of action and concerns itself with multifarious rites of specific characters for the attainment of pleasures and power,–delude their hearts and the minds of these men who are attached to pleasures and power cannot be directed to contemplation (of the divine being) regarding it as the sole means of emancipation.

The Vedas are concerned with three qualities, (viz., religion, profit, and pleasure). Be thou, O Arjuna, free from them, unaffected by pairs of contraries (such as pleasure and pain, heat and cold, etc.), ever adhering to patience without anxiety for new acquisitions or protection of those already acquired, and self-possessed, whatever objects are served by a tank or well, may all be served by a vast sheet of water extending all around; so whatever objects may be served by all the Vedas, may all be had by a Brahmana having knowledge (of self or Brahma).

Thy concern is with work only, but not with the fruit (of work). Let not the fruit be thy motive for work; nor let thy inclination be for inaction. Staying in devotion, apply thyself to work, casting off attachment (to it), O [Arjuna], and being the same in success or unsuccess. This equanimity is called Yoga (devotion). Work (with desire of fruit) is far inferior to devotion, O [Arjuna]. Seek thou the protection of devotion. They that work for the sake of fruit are miserable. He also that hath devotion throws off, even in this world, both good actions and bad actions. Therefore, apply thyself to devotion. Devotion is only cleverness in action. The wise, possessed of devotion, cast off the fruit born of action, and freed from the obligation of
(repeated) birth, attain to that region where there is no unhappiness. When thy mind shall have crossed the maze of delusion, then shalt thou attain to an indifference as regards the hearable and the heard.
When thy mind, distracted (now) by what thou hast heard (about the means of acquiring the diverse objects of life), will be firmly and immovably fixed on contemplation, then wilt thou attain to devotion.’

“Arjuna said,–What, O [Krishna], are the indications of one whose mind is fixed on contemplation? How should one of steady mind speak, how sit, how move?” “The Holy One said,–‘When one casts off all the desires of his heart and is pleased within (his) self with self, then is one said to be of steady mind. He whose mind is not agitated amid calamities, whose craving for pleasure is gone, who is freed from attachment (to worldly objects), fear and wrath, is said to be a Muni of steady mind. His is steadiness of mind who is without affection everywhere, and who feeleth no exultation and no aversion on obtaining diverse objects that are agreeable and disagreeable. When one withdraws his senses from the objects of (those) senses as the tortoise its limbs from all sides, even his is steadiness of mind. Objects of senses fall back from an abstinent person, but not so the passion (for those objects). Even the passion recedes from one who has beheld the Supreme (being). The agitating senses, O [Arjuna], forcibly draw away the mind of even a wise man striving hard to keep himself aloof from them. Restraining them all, one should stay in contemplation, making me his sole refuge. For his is steadiness of mind whose senses are under control. Thinking of the objects of sense, a person’s attachment is begotten towards them. From attachment springeth wrath; from wrath ariseth want of discrimination; from want of discrimination, loss of memory; from loss of memory, loss of understanding; and from loss of understanding (he) is utterly ruined. But the self-restrained man, enjoying objects (of sense) with senses freed from attachment and aversion under his own control, attaineth to peace (of mind). On peace (of mind) being attained, the annihilation of all his miseries taketh place, since the mind of him whose heart is peaceful soon becometh steady. He who is not self-restrained hath no contemplation (of self). He who hath no contemplation hath no peace (of mind).
Whence can there be happiness for him who hath no peace (of mind)? For the heart that follows in the wake of the sense moving (among their objects) destroys his understanding like the wind destroying a boat in the waters. Therefore, O thou of mighty arms, his is steadiness of mind whose senses are restrained on all sides from the objects of sense. The restrained man is awake when it is night for all creatures; and when other creatures are awake that is night to a discerning Muni. He into whom all objects of desire enter, even as the waters enter the ocean which (though) constantly replenished still maintains its water-mark unchanged–(he) obtains peace (of mind) and not one that longeth for objects of desire. That man who moveth about, giving up all objects of desire, who is free from craving (for enjoyments) and who hath no affection and no pride, attaineth to peace (of mind). This, O [Arjuna], is the divine state. Attaining to it, one is never deluded. Abiding in it one obtains, on death, absorption into the Supreme Self.’

These are “controversial” Quranic verses :

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-
(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, “our Lord is Allah”. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
(They are) those who, if We establish them in the land, establish regular prayer and give regular charity, enjoin the right and forbid wrong: with Allah rests the end (and decision) of (all) affairs.
If they treat thy (mission) as false, so did the peoples before them (with their Prophets),- the People of Noah, and ‘Ad and Thamud;

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

As we can see, there is a wide divergence between the basic motivations in the two – the Geeta wants Arjuna to fight without thinking of fruits of  action. Geeta wants detachment, moreover the entire motivation of war is to set right “injustice” done upon the injured party – in this case the Pandavas, and not because their enemies believe in a different religion. What were the injustices done on Pandavas – they were setup to lose a game of chance in which they were made to lose and sell themselves into slavery, including their wife whom one of the victors attempts to strip in public, they were disinherited from their share, there were assassination attempts on them even in exile, and finally their peace offer of being given just five villages for the five brothers were rejected. We do not see, any such sequence of injustices on Muhammad from the start. In spite of propaganda, we can see, that the Qureysh did not try to enslave the women of  Muhammad’s party or strip them in public – in fact there are stories of how one of the daughters of Muhammad was secretly and safely escorted out of Mecca to her father when the city was boiling with news of the Muslim’s treacherous and murderous ambushes. The Qureysh hit back only after repeated ambushes and murders of Qureysh businessmen leading their caravans. Muhammad never offers to be happy with a village for himself – although we do not know under what inheritance claim this would be valid. In fact  Muhammad urges war simply for not believing in his religion, or on suspicion of treachery without proof, or simply an opponent defending their property or family from unexpected attacks, or simply because his opponent is relatively wealthy in camels and beautiful women.


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2 Responses to “Mumbai Masala from “God Remembers” : a source of Islamic propaganda protected by India -4 : all religions promote war”

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This is my first comment on your blog. What an insightful commentary!! Hats off to you!

Islam is a pile of filth for sure. What shakes my nerves are Islamophiles, Islamists and those apologist, including the likes of Gandhi and Binoba and their modern day equivalent-western or Indian apologist-who see reason into the pervert cult Islam stands for.

However, as Aristotle once said: “you are what you deserve to be”. I feel it contains raw truth and is especially applicable to ‘infidel’ Hindus. For they aptly deserved persecution for their socio-political wrongdoings. Even today, Hindus practice caste-based untouchability, discriminating shamelessly since time immemorial against those most loyal to religion until Dr Ambedkar.

My own middle-caste family practices untouchability towards muslim and ‘dalits’ but, is more discriminative and cruel towards ‘dalits'(what a shame!! Is it the reason for Islam’s success in India??). I feel dismayed when you (Dikgaj) seem pre-disposed to ignore this fact while calling for unity among Hindus leading to Islam’s ideological defeat. It is simply impossible unless few of the basic tenets of Hinduism are demolished. Unfortunately most of the Hindus are not willing to sacrifice this.

The only hope is that an incessant and slow positive change is coming. And, my generation onward (noone in my family at least) are not going to practice untouchability. In fact, i am devoting lot of effort secretly from my family to curb ‘untouchability’.

I wish your vision of reformation (defeat of Islamic ideology) come true one day without blood-bath. However, the latter option should be resorted in absent of any other alternative.

is my comment ‘off-topic’?

Read Al Behurani India. This book is one of the most racist book written by a Islamic pig who thought himself to be a scholar.
The writer or a Muslim tried to show Hindus as idiots. Read the book It is available in Google books for free as it is old book.
You will see the 10 Century Racist language of Islam in full swing. This book is like a guide to Islamic invaders to understand India

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